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Peter Maltezos's picture


Flemington rail won't be used - running trains will slow train system: Andrews government

December 23, 2015 - 4:37AM, Clay Lucas

Transport and Planning policies

An artist's impression of planned apartment towers next to Flemington Racecourse railway station.

Thousands of new residents in apartment towers planned on land at Flemington Racecourse should not get a train service, the Andrews government says – despite having a useable railway station and line at their doorstep.

Public Transport Victoria and the state transport department have rejected outright the possible use of the station for commuter services.

Advocates for public transport branded the approach "defeatist and disappointing".

I collect, therefore I am. thecollectormm.com.au

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Melbman's picture

^^ The demand would still likely not be sufficient from that development to warrant all day train services.

Peak services could well be beneficial but that is also when the capacity is needed on the other lines. Its just another example of the limitations of the network.

There's a tram route next to it which people can utilise but those are likely already quite full on peak periods.

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Llib's picture
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johnproctor's picture

Stupid. If every person living in those apartments caught the train to work at the same time you might fill 1 train.

But they won't do that they'll do what happens across Melbourne and want to travel from 7-9am etc. they'll not all work in the city so won't all train to work, some will ride bikes, some will have free parking in the CBD, some will be retirees not travelling at all, etc etc etc.


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Alastair Taylor's picture

ICYMI - Infrastructure Victoria has released its Metro and regional citizens juries reports.


both juries were made up of 40 jurists randomly selected by Infrastructure Vic and they had access to SMEs/academics/bureaucrats and were asked to endorse (or not) and prioritise various infrastructure policy directions: community space, the justice system, transport systems et al.

Anyhow, to be more directly relevant to this thread:

Read pages 3, 4 and 5 (the intro) of the metro report to get an idea of the purpose of the citizens jury.

In a nutshell, the report which has all their recommendations, based on evidence they've been presented with, aims only to aid in Government decision-making process.

Perhaps the biggest thing to come out of the metro report, for me at least, is the way walking and cycling - and the associated infrastructure - gets a big nod (page 12 onwards).

Need 10 " Access to economic activity in central Melbourne" (starting from page 36 of the metro report) looks to have asked the jury bout various gov PT initiatives:

Page 36:
- lengthened trains (7 and 10 car)
- Geelong & Werribee Rail upgrade
- Geelong fast Rail

Juror Endorsement: Strong
Priority: medium

Page 37:
- Rail signalling & fleet upgrade
- Public Transport train timetabling
- Train platform utilisation

Juror Endorsement: Strong
Priority: Medium

Page 38

- Water taxies/ferries

Juror Endorsement: Moderate
Priority: Low

Page 39:

- Doncaster trams
- Hoddle/Punt PT prioritisation
- Bike highways through the central city
- Central city tram network extension

Juror Endorsement: Moderate
Priority: Medium

Page 40:
- Transport network price regime

Juror Endorsement: Strong
Priority: High

Page 41:

- City Loop reconfig

Juror Endorsement: moderate
Priority: medium

Page 41:

- Doncaster Heavy Rail
- Rowville Heavy Rail
- Doncaster bus improvement

Juror Endorsement: Does not support Doncaster/Rowville heavy rail. Moderate support for Doncaster buses improvement (with high priority).

Page 42:

- Growth area station upgrade & provision (quadruplicating and electrifying the RRL track Sunshine->Deer Park and "To Tarneit" (doesn't make it clearer than that).
- Melton electrification
* notes a caveat on Metro 1 must be built first.

Juror Endorsement: High
Priority: High

Page 46:

- Growth area bus service expansion
- Smartbus provision increase
- Melbourne Airport metro PT connections

Juror Recommendation: Strong
Priority: High.

Page 47:

- Arterial road network expansion

Juror Endorsement: Moderate, conditional
Priority: Moderate

Page 49:

- Gippsland-Pakenham Rail shuttle
* the left field/curve ball, an increase on Gippsland V/Line that simply terminates at Pakenham - recommends more community consultation. Interestingly, in the regional report, the "Regional Rail Eastern Corridor dedicated track" (presumably quadruplication or some other way of getting more track out there) is not supported by regional jury on cost grounds, recommends Pakenham-Gippsland shuttle instead - Page 32 of regional report).

Juror Endorsement: Mixed
Priority: Low

Page 54:

- East-West Link & North-East link (page 54)
* clearly the one with the most argy-bargy. Best to just read that page.

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pdoff's picture

This seemed the most appropriate thread for an article about value capture and the MMR2...


OCTOBER 13 2016

Push to hit households with a new tax to help pay for future rail

Josh Gordon

Local households could face an extra $435 rate charge each to help underwrite a proposed new $19 billion train tunnel that would connect Clifton Hill with Newport , the state's key infrastructure adviser says.

In a report released on Thursday, Infrastructure Victoria concluded that the Melbourne Metro 2 project - a proposed train tunnel running from Clifton Hill to Newport via Parkville, Southern Cross Station and Fishermans Bend - could add about $20 billion to land values.

It warned that residential and commercial properties set to benefit from big infrastructure projects might need to get used to the idea of helping pay for them.

In a controversial approach to funding infrastructure known as "value capture", and which is championed by Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, it concluded about one-quarter of the project costs could be funded by hitting those who benefit with a "betterment levy".

Under the most likely scenario, all residential and commercial properties within 1 kilometre of the rail corridor would pay the new tax. In the first year of operation, the average rate would be $435 for residential properties, or $21 and $10 per square metre for commercial and industrial properties.

The Andrews government has already ruled out such a tax to pay for the first $10.9 billion stage of the project, which will involve twin tunnels running from South Yarra to Kensington.

But Infrastructure Victoria has also placed the idea of a the second stage on the agenda as Melbourne struggles to cope with booming population growth. The second stage has been estimated to cost between $15 billion and $22 billion in today's dollars, with construction unlikely to start until at least 2034.

A spokesman for Treasurer Tim Pallas said Infrastructure Victoria's final recommendations were due in December and would be "fully considered" ahead of a five-year infrastructure strategy due to be released by the middle of next year.With infrastructure funding a major political issue, the idea of hitting households or businesses with higher taxes to help pay for it is already proving highly controversial.

Property Council deputy executive director Asher Judah said he was shocked at the proposal, warning the plan would increase house prices and rents, with many Victorians already struggling to cope with housing costs.

Mr Judah said under the proposal a 40,000 square metre office tower could face an increase of approximately $800,000 a year for 30 years.

"At the 2014 Election Debate the premier took a stand against the introduction of new taxes; we are calling on him to honour his promise now," Mr Judah said.

The idea of "value capture" - where the households and business that directly benefit from a project are required to help fund it - was heavily spruiked by Mr Turnbull. In April this year, he said major projects needed to harness the boost in property values that resulted from them, and called for a "cultural gear change in the way that we look at urban infrastructure".

But the details about how the concept could be put into practice to fund big projects have so far proved elusive. Infrastructure Victoria said methods of applying the concept could include "betterment" levies, developer contributions, and cashing in on property development around train stations.

It said there was evidence that certain types of infrastructure such as train stations increased near-by land values, providing "significant windfall gains to land owners".

"A park, for instance, is more readily enjoyed by those living nearby; a train service is most beneficial for those living and working near a station. Even state-wide services, such as hospital care, are most valuable to those with ready access to them.

The concept of value capture is not a new one. It was used to help fund Melbourne's City Loop, with a variety of levies and charges. It is also being used to fund London's Crossrail project through a levy on non-residential properties.

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pdoff's picture

New rail tunnels proposed for $3 billion City Loop upgrade

Herald Sun October 15, 2016

A $3 BILLION plan to build new tunnels in the City Loop has been put on the agenda to give Melbourne a London-style underground system.

But commuters will have to change services to get around the CBD, with rail lines taking separate routes under the city.

Infrastructure Victoria’s planning blueprint names the City Loop reconfiguration as a priority within 15 years to provide a 10 per cent expansion of rail capacity, particularly on the Craigieburn and Upfield lines.

Tunnels would be built between Flagstaff and North Melbourne, and Parliament and Richmond, while a flyover would be built from North Melbourne to link to the proposed electrification of the Wallan line.

Public Transport Minister Jacinta Allan said the City Loop reconfiguration would help boost services once the $10.9 billion Melbourne Metro tunnel was operational in 2026.

“None of these projects are possible without the Metro Tunnel and the space it creates in the loop to run more services in and out of the city,” Ms Allan said.

Commuters will have to change services to get around the CBD, with rail lines taking separate routes under the city.
Infrastructure Victoria’s draft 30-year plan says construction of the new City Loop tunnels should begin “shortly after completion” of the Metro project, which could also help alleviate disruption associated with the major works.

The planning body said building extra rail tunnels under the CBD would “result in more people needing to change trains, a key trade-off to the capacity boost the option provides”.

“(It) would require many passengers to change their travel patterns, including interchanging more, which needs careful management not to overly impact on passengers,” Infrastructure Victoria said.

Public Transport Users Association spokesman Daniel Bowen said commuters would have to alter their behaviour when trains no longer run the whole way around the City Loop.

“You need to know that if you have to change trains that it is a short walk between platforms and you won’t be left waiting 20 or 30 minutes for a connection,” Mr Bowen said.

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Mark Baljak's picture

Something different

Elon Musk's Hyperloop can allow 1 hour Sydney-Melbourne travel
Elon Musk's space age "Hyperloop" concept – in which passengers race through a tube at close to the speed of sound – is real enough that a parliamentary committee has recommended it be considered as a genuine alternative to high-speed rail.

The Committee on Infrastructure, Transport and Cities' report says Hyperloop would allow passengers to travel between Sydney and Melbourne in less than one hour, Newcastle and Sydney in 10 minutes and a trip between Shepparton and Melbourne would be all over in five minutes.

Hyperloop is the brainchild of Tesla chief executive Mr Musk and is being developed by Los Angeles-based company Hyperloop One, which is expecting to conduct a full-scale test in the next two months.

Hyperloop consists of a pressurised "pod" or capsule that travels at high speed through a reduced-pressure tube. The pods travel on an air cushion and are driven by air compressors and linear induction motors. They can accelerate at a similar rate to a jet plane taking off.

Pods are much smaller than high speed rail trains and could operate more frequently and with far fewer passengers. Hyperloop One envisages a pod in a "superluxe" configuration being able to carry 24 people, 50 people in a business class configuration and 90 when the pod was set up with cheaper economy seats.

Hyperloop One's Dr Alan James said that because the pods operate in a pressure reduced environment with virtually zero drag, it will cost "next to nothing" to move them from one city to another.

As such Hyperloop pods can travel with 10 or 15 per cent occupancy and still be financially viable whereas a similar level of occupancy would "bankrupt a high-speed rail system", Dr James said.

Sean Duggan of Ultraspeed Australia, which represents Hyperloop One in Australia, said Hyperloop could create a network of "30-minute cities". This would, in effect, bring cities such as Canberra and Newcastle within a 30-minute journey of central Sydney. The "30-minute city" concept was part of the Turnbull government's election campaign, designed to allow people to commute to work, school and entertainment within 30 minutes in their own city and expand the stock of affordable housing.

While the technology is still in the development phase, Hyperloop One estimates the technology to be 20 per cent cheaper to build than high speed rail and 60 per cent cheaper to operate.

In addition the committee recommended funding the development of a high-speed rail network through private funding using a "value capture" model rather than government revenue.

"Value capture" allows the government to recoup some of the costs of transport infrastructure by getting private land owners and developers who benefit from the infrastructure to pay.

"Linking regional towns to their nearest major city via high speed rail will fast track the supply of affordable housing stock for generations to come," parliamentary committee chair John Alexander said.

Read more: http://www.afr.com/news/economy/elon-musks-hyperloop-can-allow-1-hour-sy...

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Alastair Taylor's picture

The Fishermans Bend draft Framework release has also coincided with a new online document library going on the site, here's the Integrated Transport Plan/report: http://www.fishermansbend.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0029/87059/F...

Of particular interest is from page 20 onwards, covering all the assessed options for cycling, new bus routes, trams and identifying the best heavy rail station locations (and route).

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Peter H's picture

A 20-minute city includes the expectation that you can get anywhere you need within 20 minutes. Great. But in the 21st century, employment is more casualised & transient. Therefore, when you move jobs, if the next job is to remain within the 20-minute radius, you may need to move home. How does our current stamp duty policy align with this?

Part of becoming a 20-minute city, and reducing congestion, will require shorter commutes, That way, commuters in any one area are relative "locals", not "locals plus distance commuters". Traffic in Box Hill will be those from within that general area. It won't include those passing through Box Hill trying to get from Epping to Dandenong or Monash. The Sunshine traffic won't include those from the east trying to get to the Werribee precinct.

If someone from Epping changes jobs and needs to commute to Werribee, they may decide to move house. This takes pressure off the transport, roads and public, in between these endpoints. A phase-out of Stamp Duty, replaced by a broad-based property tax is required.

It should be based on CIV and not land (SV), so that apartment dwellers also pay, thus spreading the burden. The Fire Levy works this way, and so do council rates. One of the reasons NSW scrapped their proposed Fire Levy is that they were to do it on Site (Land) Value. Apartments have a tiny SV, each, as the value of the underlying land is shared between all units. A $500K unit might have a site value of $30K, whereas a $500K house might have a $390K SV. Is it fair for the homeowner to pay 13x what the unit owner pays? This is how Land Tax works, and stings, and was to work in NSW for the Fire Levy (NSW council rates work this way too, there is no CIV in NSW). Having part of the levies/rates/taxes charged as a fixed amount can assist with this, but having a small fixed charge is preferable due to its regressive nature.

Whenever I hear of a broad-based "land tax" I cringe. A broad-based PROPERTY tax is infinitely superior and must form part of the transport/congestion solution. Not for extra dollars, but to spread the cost across the community and not concentrate it on those who buy property.

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theboynoodle's picture

No land tax proponent I know if thinks it works like you think it works.

It is based on the developed value of a site, taking into account planning permission. So the land on which apartments sit is far more valuable than the land on which houses sit. It is therefore taxed at a much higher rate so that apartment dwellers pay their share. The site value of a plot where you can build a 30 storey apartment tower is much much higher than one where you can't.

Basing land tax on property values is inferior. Individual properties (buildings) are hard to value. Land is easier as there are fewer variables (pretty much just size, location, and planning potential). Plus, part of the point of land value tax is to encourage optimal use. You tax based on what the land is worth so that someone underutilising it pays heavily and will, hopefully, pass it on to someone who will use it more efficiently.

I agree with you that LVT is good and is infinitely better than stamp duty. But I'm not sure you know what it really is.

This blog http://markwadsworth.blogspot.com is usually a good read. It's UK-focussed but the same applies. Mark regularly runs through objections to LVT (KLN's, he calls them, but I don't know what that stands for) which are handy to have in your pocket.

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Oring dashing's picture

Urban forum has a thread about Melbourne Metropolitan and Regional Victoria discussion. You need to check this learn more and get the new steps Portugal Golden Visa Guide. You can get the rules of new residents in apartment towers planned on land at Flemington Racecourse. They have a justification for the architectural landmarks of central Melbourne. Join it.

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